Well I need to play fallout but, you could easily(?) solve this problem by when a fight breaks out to go into "battle mode" and change to a FFT/FF7 type of screen where to actually fight. Once the fight is over the creatures/players go back to where they were before the fight started.

I think AR needs to clarify, but I''ll try and translate(I hope I"m not wrong). This is *not* for a Fallout type game where it''s plausible to run around in real-time until combat and then pull EVERYONE in the same map into turn-based. This is for an MMO setting where he needs to allow the combatants to fight without bothering anyone who might just be passing by or wanting to watch.
Personally, I think a ''combat radius'' would work well.

Take every one of the fighters and measure x distance away from the other fighters, and whoever can manage a radius large enough to match or be further out than the other player''s radii, that''s the circle you''d use.
With testing, you''d need to check if it would be plausible to:
a)teleport non-combatant players to the nearest non-combat position
or
b)give a warning to everyone in the radius that combat will occur, leave within [x seconds] or prepare to fight.

-Ryan "Run_The_Shadows"
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
-The Navidson Record! The best film you''ll never see!

I like that idea but I think mine would be easier , but not necessarily better...

Breaks one of what I feel is the ''core laws'' of a multiplayer game. The immersion factor. If 2 players who just started a brawl suddenly disappear for 5 minutes, then reappear, it snaps you out of the world you''re trying to create.

-Ryan "Run_The_Shadows"
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
-The Navidson Record! The best film you''ll never see!

There was an old online game by sierra called "The Realms" that used a funny animated cloud of a fight where ever there was combat. The combat was turn based and if you wanted to join you had to move into the animation or click on it.

Alright, here is a more specific ruleset. Tell me what you think.


OK, the design:

1 square = 1 meter

Distances are streight lines in the open (ignoring obsticles) or the shortest bendy distances when in dungeons/mazes. This prevents people from blocking off unrelated places.

Ways of entering turn based mode:

- Come within 10 squares of a (knowen) hostile creature you can get a warning about entering turn based mode and can click to enter turn basd immediatly.
- Come within 8 squares of a hostile creature and the creature can choose to enter you into turn based mode.
- Come within 6 squares of a (knowen) hostile creature and you enter turn based mode automaticly.

- Enter a "special" area of the map or near a special creature (that hasn''t pulled you into turn based using the above 3 rules). You get a message like "you feel a chill on your back" or "you think you hear something" or similar.

- The first 3 rules apply when coming near anyone in combat. Also in the open comming within 8, 6 or 4 squares respectivly of a line joining combatants will affect you as per the first three rules.

- Be in Player vs Player (PvP) mode and the second and third rules apply for anyone also in PvP mode. Anyone not in PvP mode can not be pulled into a PvP combat and no PvP damage will affect them. (PvP players can not turn off PvP in battle but can run as per the exiting turn based rules below. PvP can be turned off as soon as you are out of range so there will be no catching up to players once they exit turn based mode)

- Cause damage to any monster or have damage caused to you by a non-trap. Very long range weapons


Ways of exiting turn based mode:

- Turn based mode automaticly ends when more than 30 squares away from all other combatants.

- You can choose to end / leave the turn based battle when 20 or more squares away from any combatant.

- All hostiles are killed (or leave range as per rule one)

Do not meddle in the affairs of moderators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ANDREW RUSSELL STUDIOS
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Personally, the only major thing I see wrong with that is a design quirk that irks me at the core. Pansies shouldn''t be allowed to play PvP. It''s just wrong. Either balls to the wall PvP it without going back, or don''t. I can''t say I agree with any design that allows a player to hack on another player, realize his lvl 12 mage just stabbed a lvl 50 knight, and run himself far enough away to go non-PvP and then taunt the knight invincibly.
Should I ever make a game, if you click that "PvP" checkbox when you''re making your character, you had better damn well watch your back and not piss of the wrong people.

-Ryan "Run_The_Shadows"
-Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
-The Navidson Record! The best film you''ll never see!

Okie dokie then, peraps the PvP thing needs some more thought. I had just added that in to clarify the PvPers going turn based.

Perhaps some sort of item or enchantment gives you "Protection from Players" and you can get rid of it eaisly if you want, but it takes quite alot to get it back?

I am not sure. Are you sure it is a good idea to make PvP permanent?

Perhaps another thread?

*creates thread*

Do not meddle in the affairs of moderators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ANDREW RUSSELL STUDIOS
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I''ve been munching on the phased PVP question myself. For MMOG real-time combat is still some time away from being implemented, as lag and network jitters would create unfair fights. Besides, I do like a little breathing room to plan my next maneuver. However, if you allow for pure turn-based combat things could get ridiculous, with one player in a mass combat taking ten minutes on his turn while everybody else in the fight seethes impatiently. Therefore, a hybrid limited-time turn system might work better. I''ll just throw it out here and see what you think.

Combat is divided into phases, each of which take 10 seconds or so. During a phase, all participants in the combat choose what they will be doing in the next phase. If they choose to attack, they choose who and how. If they choose to move, they choose where. If they choose to take some special action, such as cast a spell, they choose which action and what target. At the end of the 10 seconds, their actions are locked in and begin to resolve. The nifty part: as they are declaring actions, the actions they declared in the previous phase are resolving in real time. An outside viewer sees a continual stream of combat actions. The phases need not be synchronized - each combatant could have a different phase schedule, so long as each phase lasts the same amount of time.

The nifty thing about this system is that because phased time isn''t that much different from real time, it''s easy to transition between the two. A player''s phase timer begins the moment he enters combat. A player can make a "fair escape" when he declares a movement action to outside the radius of combat, and nobody else targets him during that movement.

The only problem is what to do with the initial "phase-in lag" - the first ten seconds of the combat where the player has not yet had a chance to declare actions. If a player is suddenly thrust into combat, because he wandered into the middle of a melee or because he was attacked without warning, he might be defenseless for ten seconds while he prepares his counter. I imagine there could be a default action set by the game or the player, dependent on the way combat was joined. That is, one could set up this scheme: when entering combat voluntarily, draw my sword and charge the nearest opponent, but when entering combat due to attack, draw sword and defend. If there''s a better solution, I would say go with that instead.

I don''t mean to derail your thread, but I just wanted to bring up another option to consider.

---------------------------------------------------
-SpittingTrashcan

You can''t have "civilization" without "civil".

No, you''re not really derailing my thread


I am actualy leaning towards having every player announce their actions and then have the results play out. I am not so keen on having players choose their next actions _as_ the action plays out because that would be not benificial to laggy players. I will probably add a timeout of like 20 seconds and then perhaps have the AI take over probaly to defend - no attacking. This will prevent anyone being annoying.

As for the PvP thing, I am reluctant to have it permently on. I am still not sure of a good way to go around it, in the mean time keep the PvP dicussion to the other thread and if anyone pipes up with a good idea, or I come up with something I''ll talk about it later.

Do not meddle in the affairs of moderators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ANDREW RUSSELL STUDIOS
Cool Links :: [ GD | TG | MS | NeHe | PA | SA | M&S | TA | LiT | H*R ]
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