So in relation to the enormous kvetching about imcomplete games... I''ve been trying to move up from amateur status, or even work on a game that actually reaches completion, but I''m not sure how to do it. I know music is a very competative industry, but any advice you guys could offer me would be appreciated. I''ve got a degree, a spiffy website (www.cosmiccompositions.com), and I know what I''m doing. What''s the thing that''ll put it over the edge? I''m sure I''m not the only one wondering this. Any pros out there? Got Funk? www.cosmiccompositions.com

Hi there,

Well.. for all you budding musicians like Cosmic here in teh gaming industry.. here''s some very IMPORTANT tips..

I''ve worked commercially before, believe me it''s a rush! Don''t start saving yourself for the big guns until you''ve dealt with the little guys.. ie the wanna be game developers who cruise this forum. They are the future, their Ideas today will pave tomorrows games. And the friends you make here, will help you along the way.

OK Cosmic, this is what I am looking at if I were to hire you.. based on your website.

Lets start with what you''ve been writing. You have some good ideas there, but I am not sure what equipment you are using, or if it''s your mixing, but it sounds a bit like too much I am listening with cottonwool in my ears. Your bass is a bit over the top and drowns out the higher frequencies and melody. You''re lacking punch in the mix. A lot of bottom mid bottom end. I am not the best sound engineer by far, and I myself am still learning.

Don''t put up tracks like the guitar piece, though it may be a nice song.. the quality is dirty and shows lack effort.


Firstly, start listening to game music, live, eat sleep and breathe game music. Play games!! Get caught up in the atmosphere.

Then .. when you have game music comming out of your ass.. start writing some! Take a game, any game, with some music in it. And try to write the same style. Make your own Mario tune. Make some dark ambient orchestral stuff for DiabloII .. create some techno for WipeOutXL!

Then when you have around 5-9 pieces , create the best 30 seconds of them as MP3 files and create a website for game music. Talk to developers, see what they expect from the music, the limitations, the formats... etc.

I know it sounds very excitig to write game music. Every tom dick n harry wants to get in on the act! But you need to have flair, write catchy music when it''s required and not catchy when it''s not (well, still subliminally catchy.

Ok.. now you''ve gotten to the stage where you want to start looking for work!!

This is the place... forums. I know there''s a lot of unfinished projects (i have had my fair share of them too). But don''t be discouraged. Infact, it''s better not to pick the big RPG types, and just concentrate on writing small games. They have a more likely hood of being completed. Infact, I''ve worked on 3 in the last 2 months so there''s your proof.

ALSO.. get your head into creating sound effects. Musicians are everywhere. Musician/SFX artists.. well.. harder to come by.

Every other tom dick n harry who isn''t writing music, is programming (not forgetting the tom dicks n harry''s who are doing Graphics) SO... start meeting the programmers.. start loitering around discussion forums, irc channels.. .build your contacts.. make friends.. it''s about WHO you know.. not WHAT you know.. I can personally guarantee that as both commercial contracts I have are through FRIENDS, not sending DEMOs to companies.

Well.. I have taken Tokoro.mp3 as an example and EQ''d it, gave it a little reverb..

I''ll email you the mastered version.

If you feel that people can learn from it, then we can post the links here too.

Anyway,

I hope I have helped a bit.

Regards.




Audio Artist
Groovy Audio - For Demos & Portfolio

Thanks for the feedback!

So admittedly I am composer, not an engineer, and have have VERY little training in it. Combine that with the fact that my studio, unfortunately, is not the greatest, and the fact that I''m a bass player, so my ears are tuned to want to have low end!

I wouldn''t mind at all if you posted the link to the EQed version of my song here. However, I do prefer some elements of my old version to yours. The punch of the bass in the second part, and the lack of whine in the first part. However, the drums in the second part sound MUCH better.

I''d be interested to know what others think.

Anyway, I agree with you about the quality of the recordings, and frankly, I''d love some master advice/tutoring but I''m not sure where to find it.

I also gather from your post that you''re not impressed with the music. That''s fine, but I believe that''s opinion (this is where I''m strong-headed). And different opinions are what make the world more interesting.

I have game-music pouring out of every orifice. I believe that everyone who wants to compose game-music, must be a gamer, or else they would never have had the idea.

But the whole "it''s not what you know, it''s who you know" is obviously a hackneyed idiom (not that I''m putting you down... it''s the truth). I have a lot of friends in entertainment related industries, however very few in gaming. It seems to be a bit of a niche market. That or perhaps I shouldn''t have gone to a small liberal arts college...

Anyway, once again, thanks for the feedback. I guess it''s time to do some re-mastering!

Best,


Got Funk? www.cosmiccompositions.com

Here''s teh link to the original
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=119291

Here''s a slightly remastered version
http://www.yjbrown.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/music/Tokoro(EQ).mp3


I think your bass work was just a bit drowning. What do you use for your mixing? Headphones, Studio Monitors?

You should mix on monitors, and also play through hifi, pc speakers, and headphones too.. just to see how the sound works.

I think it''s not the music that I am not impressed with, but rather it needs to stand out a little more to get noticed. I think that the mixing part of it will help a lot. I know you prefer your bass quite a bit.

- "the fact that my studio, unfortunately, is not the greatest,"

Well, here''s a supprise .. I do everything on a Laptop and a pair of Sennheiser HD565 Ovation earphones.. that''s all. At the moment I am working overseas and left all my home studio in storage. So you dont'' need a fantastic studio to pump out some good stuff

- "and the fact that I''m a bass player, so my ears are tuned to want to have low end!"

Ah, that explains it then, but your bass is drowning out the rest of the song.. moderation is the key here. Make your bass punchy.. make it stand out, but don''t let it take over the mix.

I am as well mainly a composer but I''m learning how to mix.. listening to other peoples songs, playing around with EQing.. sometimes it''s better to write out the individual parts of a song to different wav files and apply different processing on them, for example your high frequencies may sound a little whiney when I applied the mastering to the drums and bass.. but if you sperated them, then you can control what gets boosted and what stays flat.. etc




Audio Artist
Groovy Audio - For Demos & Portfolio

Yeah, that makes sense.

I use headphones for mixing... and I know that''s bad. I think I just need to be a little bit more aware of details. I''ve always known, as a performer, that professionalism is what gets you hired. And a large part of professionalism is attention to detail. Now I just need to follow that in composition too.

Not to say that my music is half-assed, but I know I''m guilty of calling a piece finished when I COULD do more.

ANYWAY, I don''t want this thread to be just about my music, or else I wouldn''t be posting here, I''d write "Dear Abby" or something.



What''s everyone''s take on professionalism, and the difference between a good song and a great song in the realm of video games? Emotional content? Detail? Catchiness? Art/Originality? Subtlety?

I''d like to hear from programmers too. What makes you guys want to hire a musician?

Got Funk? www.cosmiccompositions.com

I reckon I have the oppisite problem to what you have, my mixing is better than my composing

Your music is good, but yjbrown has fixed it up to be more excelent. I take it you passed it through an EQ (hence the "(EQ)" in the file name ) could probably be made better, if given access to the individual channels. Cosmic, you have that access! Fix it!

Fix the bass problem and you''ll be right as far as your music quality goes.

One thing is to start working on _something_. Even if you make a game in flash or something, add music to it and make it an example of game music.
Get hold of Unreal, and write your own music to go with it using UnrealEd. Perhaps use the original levels or a mod someone has made. (dosn''t have to be unreal, but that is a good one for moding)
Anything that can show off your skills with game music.
I wrote music for a book, which I can now use as an example of game music.

That way you get to avoid the hassles of depending on a game team. That should be excelent "pulling over the edge" stuff.

I hope you go well, your music is tops.

Good Luck
- Andrew

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Hey,

Once again, thanks for the feedback.

The flash game is a really good idea. I have links to flash presentations on my site, but unfortunately, since I signed over full rights of the songs, I can''t host them from my own site.

Over the weekend I did some EQ and "freshening-up" of the pieces on my site, as much as I keep trying to divert the conversation to something more general... please take a look. However the old ones are now gone, so there''s no real point of reference...

But thanks again guys.





Got Funk? www.cosmiccompositions.com

quote: What''s everyone''s take on professionalism, and the difference between a good song and a great song in the realm of video games? Emotional content? Detail? Catchiness? Art/Originality? Subtlety?

What is professionalism when it comes to games? That''s the question.

For something like a top 40 tune, it needs to be of exceptional quality - both in catchiness and as a finished product.

Games can be a little more lenient depending on the type of game.
The key element is the suitability of the music to the game. There''s no point having a General Midi tune to an epic game, nor an epic piece of music to pacman is there. The music must be at the same level as the game.

In my experience, I''ve produced tracks for a commercial game with just mods, you could argue that mods are not "professional" in the top40 sense. No, but in their own right they are considered professional because they were written to specifications, they suited the game and were of a good enough quality given the restrictions.

The way by which you implement your professionalism is that you may use catchiness (not really useful for setting scene though as you need ambience more than catchiness), or instead, perhaps experimentation.
Originality, well, sometimes you can''t be too original when writing music for a game, specially if the requirements of the company is that you need to write the music from a reference point.. ie like a tv show or cartoon. Of course, if you''re given free range to write remixes or such then you can use artistic flair to create "original - mixes" and such.

Definitely a Great Song compared to just a good song will involve aspects of Originality, Production Quality, Emotional Content/Catchiness.. etc.

Perhaps I am just rambling


Audio Artist
www.GroovyAudio.com

Uh, just out of intrest, why on earth did you sign over full rights?

It was one of my first (come to think of it maybe THE first) project, that and they paid me well for someone with no expertise at all.

That and I didn''t know any better.

Needless to say, I won''t do it again.

Got Funk? www.cosmiccompositions.com