Ah, Guardian, you do know more than you originally let on

It''s exactly the info I was looking for. I suspected the 40-60%, but I recently heard otherwise which made me doubt. So I decided to ask.

And if you don''t take offense to my slightly harsh reply to your initial post, then I will not take any from your initial reply.

i dont know how things work there, but usually the store doesnt buy from you as such, they make an order for X games, then they only pay you for the games that get sold, and can return any that dont.
Also remember your gonna have to take care of the things a publisher would normally do, such as customer support.

What about building a nice website for customer support? with forums, faqs, patches and pretty stuff? Could it work?

by the way, I would love to see a screenshot of this big title, im exploding of curiosity....

[edited by - xaxa on September 30, 2002 6:19:01 AM]

Lets face facts, large chain stores will not deal with an individual. For all they know you may have written a game that will intentionally wipe all users PC''s on Christmas day. You cannot be verified as reputable and large chain stores don''t wanna risk their reputation by selling your stuff.

Also they are dealing in 10''s of thousands of unit in just about any product and as such your product (selling in hundred''s at best) is simply not viable for them.

xaxa: if you (or anyone else) are interested, have a look at http://www.elmerproductions.com/igor

The demo you can download there is not the most recent (it''s still a beta-version), but it should give you a clear idea what the game is about.

And when/if you look at it, do keep in mind that ''big'' is a relative term

(If any of the moderators think it''s inappropriate to say that here, let me know and/or remove the post).

A tile-based game eh? I don't know if you've implemented this yet, I only saw a screenshot, but you should make the sprite edges transparent. It would look way more cooler.

EDIT: my apologies, I downloaded it. I didn't realize that he digs squares out of the ground.

[edited by - master_ball on September 30, 2002 10:04:34 AM]

So basically, the little guy gets screwed?
What does it take to have retailers stock your game? I mean, not all games are published by huge companies. There must be some way for small companies to get their games on the shelves. What about the smaller shops which aren''t part of a large chain?

Sorry about all the questions but my knowledge of the real world is very limited...

quote: Original post by razza
So basically, the little guy gets screwed?

In a word, yes.

It stinks, I know. But it''s also the way things are. This is due to a bunch of factors, not the least of which is that there are far more games produced (let alone started!) than there is shelf-space for. And as another poster said, retail stores buy in large quantities, not just a few at a time. They have narrow fulfillment windows (meaning you have to coordinate manufacture, packaging, and physical distribution carefully), will pay only for those units sold (returning the rest), and will not pay for 60-120 days after receiving the games.

All of this adds up to a whole different set of risks in publication and distribution from what you see in development, and ones which put the ''little guy'' at the back of a very long line of distributors, all clamoring for the retailer''s attention and orders.

quote:
What does it take to have retailers stock your game? I mean, not all games are published by huge companies. There must be some way for small companies to get their games on the shelves. What about the smaller shops which aren''t part of a large chain?

There may be. The people I know who have tried the retail route without a major publisher behind them have without exception spent a lot of time and money and effort with no success. Even the semi-big game companies have a difficult time dealing with distributors, and they''re often easier to deal with than the retailers!

OTOH, there''s really no reason to go the standard retail route. That method is broken. Downloadable games (aka "shareware") presents a much more palatable option for the small developer. It has its own hazards, but it gets rid of an enormous number of risks that you''ll otherwise face in trying to navigate the retail channel.

Guardian_Light and archetypist have pretty much hit the nail on the head. The little guy will always get screwed in retail distribution. For retail distribution, you have a number of problems, including limited shelf space. If you contact a distributor, you have all of 60 seconds to impress him with your game. If it takes any kind of lengthy explanation to convince him to put it on his shelves, then forget it. It won''t make it to the shelves. Sometimes, they won''t even talk to you unless you''ve dealt with them before, which is a total catch 22 scenario.

If he puts your game on the shelves and it isn''t moving, then it''s costing them money to have it there because they could replace it with something that is moving.

Imagine this scenario. You convince them to purchase 10,000 copies to distribute in several stores. You make $5/copy because they''re selling it at $24.99 each, but you pay $10 per copy to have them made and distributed. First, that''s $50,000 you have to front to have them made. Then, your illustrious distributor will take 60-120 days to pay you for them. Be careful, because they''re likely to reserve the right to return unsold copies. So, if 9,000 don''t sell, You''ve got a $5,000 check (which doesn''t come for 120 days) to cover $50,000 in distribution costs. Not a pretty scene.

All those numbers are made up, so feel free to bash the example to your hearts content. But my point still stands that as an independent developer/publisher, you''re taking a lot of risk, so you''d better be damned sure you''ve got a solid hit that will sell well.

My advice to you is to publish on the internet. The margin is higher, and the risk is lower, yet your return is also lower. You might have 10,000 people try the game and only 100 buy it. OTOH, you might have 1,000 people try it and 500 people buy it. That''s a lot less likely, but you''ll get out of the game what you put into it. If the game is crap, people won''t pay for it. If it''s a great game, you''ll end up with a cult following that you would probably never have managed with the retail distribution. It''s not impossible, but it''s not likely either.

Good luck.

Looking for an honest video game publisher? Visit www.gamethoughts.com

quote: Original post by razza
What about the smaller shops which aren''t part of a large chain?

Smaller shops are still an option, but of course because they are small, they will not buy large quantities.

So effectively it''s a bit like selling a copy to a ''normal'' customer in that respect. Depending on the size and setup of the store, it might be a lot easier to talk to the owner (slash manager slash decision maker) and if they like your product you may very well get a (small) deal.

A friend of mine has a deal where he can put his product in a particular store for free, and if any copies sell, he gets most of the sale price (if none sell he will have to take back his product). Of course it''s not likely that particular store will sell more than a few copies, but if anything it''s still a great feeling to see your product on an actual shelf in an actual shop