Paper RPG
Paper RPG involves stats, levels, and usually dice. A single human(GM) controls the story, and its up to him/her to make the game as simple as complex as s/he wishes. I've played games where shopping took an hour of real time, and other games where items magically appeared just by spending money in a town. The advantage of a GM is that the game can easily adapt to each player. When a player directly reacts with another player or a GM, the dice are usually used, to decide what happens. The story is up to the GM, he can make it as linear / non-linear as he or the players want. (yes, a GM can make a totally linear story, and then players decided not to follow it)

Computer RPG
A computer RPG tries to replace the GM with to the computer. So there is a limited amount of rules / actions are avalible, since computers can only do what we program them to do.

Console RPG
A console RPG limits the RPG even more, since consoles have more limited controls, as well as resources. User Interfaces were developed to accomidate a controller instead a keyboard and mouse. Most of what you call epic games are usually classifed as console RPGs.

Action RPG / Adventure RPG
An Action RPG is usually trying to take a paper RPG, and make it real-time. Zelda is a good example, since the world is populated by other creatures, like a paper RPG would be, and leveling is used(via items). There is a fuzzy line between a game that borrows RPG ideas, like stats, and a 'real' Action RPG.

Linear / non-linear game play can be a part of any of these games... I think linear game play is one of the definitions of your 'epic' games.

Some CRPGs do the conversion from paper to computer / console, but that is more of an implementation, not a genre thing


[edited by - dede on September 13, 2002 1:02:52 PM]

[rant on]


OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

PLEASE, STOP THIS NONSENSE.

IF YOU WANT TO BASE EVERY ASSUMPTION OF WHAT A RPG IS ON "D&D - THE FIRST RPG", THEN D&D IS THE ONLY RPG, AND NO OTHER GAME COULD POSSABLY CLAIM THE GENRE TITLE, AS LOGICALY THE ENTIRE GENRE, TO YOUR TINY MIND, COULDN'T POSSABLY GROW OR EVOLVE!!!

Christ! RPG isn't the friggin TITLE of the game...it is a game GENRE...that HAS evolved beyond the established D&D limitations...and continues to do so!

Its like saying Science-Fiction can ONLY be Star Trek...or Video-Games can only be Space War/Pong thingies...

If you don't like some RPG games...or think they shouldn't be called RPGs...then fine...Just realize that holding a binary microscope over a game genre limits your involvement in it...limits your potential to develop games within it...limits your ability to produce innovation...and limits your creative potential...


[rant off]

If you are fine with this then, hey it's your opinion...but you shouldn't feel the need to force your limited genre views on others...



The RPG genre can AND DOES include pen-n-paper, computer, and console games...this is because the genre evolved to incorporate new mediums as they developed.

To hold computer and console RPGs aside by saying they arn't true RPGs (in the tradition of the pen-n-paper models) is as nonsensical as saying Jackie Chan isn't a true action star as action movies don't hold true to the origins of the action genre as it originated in books.

Now we could either spend time here endlessly bitching about this...or actualy get some work done on our respective games in development....

Hmm..time management...this reminds me...the game "The Sims" would qualify as a RPG...you create a character, and can take on thier role, developing them socialy and economicly during the game...it doesn't have combat in it (it's foolish to me to think a RPG must have combat...RPGs need CONFLICT resolution...combat is only a form of CONFLICT resolution....but it is not the only exclusive way CONFLICT can be resolved)...but hey...to me RPG is a genre that can exclipse many vastly different games...



[edited by - MSW on September 13, 2002 3:40:20 PM]

This is a pretty pointless discussion. There is no 'real' RPG. 'RPG' is a generic label which helps you guess at the game's content. It doesn't mean it's a straitjacket that requires you to have levels, hit points, an overground map, elves, charisma points, magic, or anything. There should be no confusion as long as people bear this in mind. RPG is a vague term, and that's that. If you want more clarification, call it an action RPG, console-style RPG, online RPG, etc. Is that so hard?

PS: the original post is quite misleading, in saying that D+D is a board game (it is not - it requires no board) and that AD&D was a way to play D&D interactively (it wasn't - AD&D was just a refinement of the D&D rules).

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[edited by - Kylotan on September 13, 2002 4:57:34 PM]

quote: Original post by MSW
IF YOU WANT TO BASE EVERY ASSUMPTION OF WHAT A RPG IS ON "D&D - THE FIRST RPG", THEN D&D IS THE ONLY RPG, AND NO OTHER GAME COULD POSSABLY CLAIM THE GENRE TITLE, AS LOGICALY THE ENTIRE GENRE, TO YOUR TINY MIND, COULDN''T POSSABLY GROW OR EVOLVE!!!

Christ! RPG isn''t the friggin TITLE of the game...it is a game GENRE...that HAS evolved beyond the established D&D limitations...and continues to do so!

No, I said to evolve you must atain a certain degree of inheritance from the original... (perhaps I didn''t say it but I meant it.)

quote: Original post by MSW
Its like saying Science-Fiction can ONLY be Star Trek...or Video-Games can only be Space War/Pong thingies...

I don''t think Star Trek was the first Science-Fiction.. but pretending it is; At least all Science-Fictions inherited the basic idea set by Star Trek: something us humans at this time cannot do.. (such as faster than light travel or something else.)

quote: Original post by MSW
If you are fine with this then, hey it''s your opinion...but you shouldn''t feel the need to force your limited genre views on others...

Fine.. this is my last post concerning this matter .

quote: Original post by MSW
The RPG genre can AND DOES include pen-n-paper, computer, and console games...this is because the genre evolved to incorporate new mediums as they developed.

I never said it didn''t; I said that some evolutions of RPG are wrong (such as many ''Japanese RPGs''.) Just because early ''Japanese RPGs'' inherited two (minor) aspects of D&D does it make a true evolution of the first? To evolve you MUST inherit.

Okay, I''m done.. no more please!! I wasn''t too clear in my first post (such as missleading facts and undefined points) and I''m sorry for that. I wish I could re-post my first but its too late . But I stand by: To evolve you MUST inherit .

like its been said before, a "true" meaning for RPG cannot be established. This just lead to a long debate. but for reference (incase you havent already) go to teh faq of this forum and follow the mentioned RPG links there. You''ll find a lot of the information useful.

then you can go here and find out more.
then you can go here and find out even more.

and then you can go to google (or whatever search engine you use) and read as much as you want on what an RPG is. at the end, the definition of an RPG is your opinion. and the bottom line is that if you ask 37 diffrent people what an RPG is you''ll probably get 60 different answers



Al
"For us it''s a natural disaster....For him/she it''s a damn memory leak..."
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RPG:
1) where you assume of the role of a character in a non linear world
2) the character interacts with other in-game characters making him
more dynamic
3) the character, in the end, becomes more than what he was in the
beginning
4) character discovers and reacts to more as he ventures his world
5) goal(s) is not always single and/or straightforward.

this is a rpg in my opinion. and none of the items in the list are
in any particular order.

Knowledge is what you learn, wisdom is how you apply it.






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