I would like to get some opinions/reasons and also to ask for advice concerning the programming "Languages"that are ONLY accepted(If this does in fact exist) for professional Game Development in the industry. I'm talking about the routes for smaller Indie Game Developers,not huge teams. I have had many discussions with lots of different programmers,artists,designers, and this question keeps coming up on a lot of game development forums,though it seems as though nobody that reply's really knows whether this is true or not. I would like to go back to these forums and say once and for all,that i have had an answer from someone who knows for sure whether this is true or not,because he/she is or has been in professional game development at one time. (This is regarding PC only Games*Full Games not Prototypes,not console etc). The question is whether or not,a proffesional Game(or to put it another way, title that has the potential of great success amongst gamers) or a Game Engine, MUST be wriiten entirely in C\C++ these days to be accepted by a credible publisher or to be classed as a worthy Commercial Product,and have huge success and be ranked as a professional title/Engine or Game Making Tool. Even if the game has wonderful design,beutiful graphics,professional voice actors,great original music tracks,Animation and modelling by very talented people etc etc,the game was tested and tested for everything,and ran the way it was designed to, and if the product was up in front of a credible Publisher,he would straight away, flattly turn away from it because it was not written in C\C++??,and written in say Blitz Basic(Blitz 3D) Power Basic/Pure Basic?? even that the design and gameplay of the game did not need the speed of the latest FPS games,e.g...it was an adventure game like the Longest Journey or an adventure using Backdrops. I would Love to hear from a Developer with industry experience to answer this question, or even better a games publisher,even some constructive advice from some friendly c and c++ programmers on this one,though Please,Block-head reply's from c++ fans who want to make themselves shine,because they have learnt a difficult language but still have NO actual game/engine to show for their time need not reply Cheers. [edited by - Blitz 3D on September 1, 2002 1:57:30 AM]

Myst, the best selling game at its time, was written using an authoring tool called Hypercard and 3D modeling tools. These days even the most graphics-intensive games, such as Doom 3, tend to use higher-level languages than C++ for scripting.

quote: Original post by HenryApe
These days even the most graphics-intensive games, such as Doom 3, tend to use higher-level languages than C++ for scripting.

First off there is a big difference between scripting and the actual game engine. Game engines, especially 3d, would be written in C or C++ and some people out there are still writting stuff in machine code. The game play may be scripted using an in-house scripting language but that is so that the designers (non-programmers) can create the levels/puzzles/trigger enemies/position pick-ups without having to bother the programmer.

In answer to the original post, if you have a team and they have a great (finished) game then you could probably get away with it by just not mentioning the language that the game is written in. You can do a great game that does not need the power of C++.

It wouldn''t be the same if you were trying to pitch the idea to a publisher at the start of the project. They would be unlikely to sign it as they would think that the project would not be cutting edge (even if, as you say, it does not need the power of C++). They would also see your lack of C++ as a limit for the future. You would never be able to anything other than the game type you are talking about. Whereas a team that can use C++ could do your game idea without using the full power of the language and also work in other genres that do need that power.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions

Thanks to both of you for your reply's.
Dan,the idea of not mentioning the language
was what first came to mind,though i also
heard (This may not be true)that publishers,
will definately need to know what Language
the Game was made,(for support+fixes etc)
and require to see source code,and get Ip
on it.

Obviously,as you have experience with publishers
(meaning your not just guessing here)

If a title(as described above)was developed using a
tool such as Quest 3Dwww.quest3d.com.)
that is written in c++,aimed for a small team of artists/or a designer(with say only 1 programmer who's language is c++)and has a visual approach to programming,but has the ability for custom work,(with an SDK)and is quite cabable of producing many different styles/genres of games,also supports a lot of the latest stuff (pixel shaders etc) would it be an acceptable
development tool?

Or is it basiclly a case of either having to use a proven or well-known engine,or showing the ability ,you have a team that can develop your own (in c\c++),that goes down well with large publishers?








[edited by - Blitz 3D on September 1, 2002 10:30:06 PM]

You answered your first question... publishers need games in C\C++ because it is a very popular language, so they will have the option to change the source code with a C\C++ programmer and won't need to waste time and resources to find someone who knows a specific unpopular language.

[edited by - The C modest god on September 2, 2002 4:26:35 AM]

"The C modest god"...Thanks for your reply,i can understand
the reasons now why C\C++ are the Languages in serious
Game-Dev(a Guy from the "Game-institute" explained Why as well.

I think its a shame for a lot of small talented Teams,that are using Blitz etc,and are far into development with their projects,as i know some of them are hoping to get their project published by the "Decent Publishers",and i have to say,some of them have more life to them,than some of the recent games that I have seen hit the shelves just lately written in C\C++ published by The Big Company's.(i could name the games but i won't).

A lot of Games coming out now are far more focused on Technology
rather than making a Great Game anymore,that will keep the
player interested,and hooked,after the first ten minutes of Just being dazzled by effects,and then looking in their pocket for the receipt.

It would benefit these talented ones to get into C\C++,but then,
I suppose,they will end up going that way.

Anyway,thanks for the reply's!





[edited by - Blitz 3D on September 2, 2002 11:15:14 PM]

[edited by - Blitz 3D on September 2, 2002 11:27:43 PM]

To answer your question based on experience, it doesn''t matter if it is developed using C or Blitz Basic, etc. Quality counts!
You are responsible to maintain the software,fixing bugs etc. using your development environment. There are commercial games published using Dark Basic, 3D Game Studio, Blitz Basic etc. Check http://www.conitec.com and you see that there are many published games developed using Conitecs 3D Game Studio.
So again it doesn''t matter. Also you mentioned Blitz basic, there are many Blitz Basic commercial games published. Check http://www.kooldog.co.uk/.

I also know a guy who developed an action game in about 48 hours using a click event tool, TGF pro. He submitted the game to an Azian publisher and earned very much royalties. So quality counts!

I hope I was able to help you out.

For reference check http://www.blitzbasic.com/getpub.html

Get Published!

Want to get your game published? Want to see your name on a box? Want to earn money programming?

Idigicon, the publishers of Blitz Basic/Blitz3D are on the lookout for new games to publish all the time. We currently publish over 30 games written with Blitz that launched our games label - Kool Dog Entertainment - www.kooldog.co.uk

As a software publisher, we understand the anxieties of who to talk to, what a publishers expects and all the other questions raised when you are new to games development/publishing. You can take comfort from the fact that Idigicon have been developing/publishing software since 1983, when the Spectrum and Commodore 64 were the top machines, so we have the experience and knowledge needed to help you with the publishing process.

Therefore, we would like to hear from anyone who has a demo or full game for us to evaluate. We will give you an honest opinion on your game and what changes (if any) may need to be done, for us to publish your game.

Please feel free to contact our Project Manager, George Bray, for all game submissions and for advice you may need.

The contact details are:

george@idigicon.com

Idigicon
Ashfield House
Ashfield Road
Balby
Doncaster
DN4 8QD
United Kingdom

Tel: +44 (0)1302 310800
Fax: +44 (0)1302 314001

I don''t think it matters at all what language your game is programmed in. Getting the game done is the most important thing.

However, if you join a professional developer it''s pretty much a given that you''ll have to know C or C++ inside-out. This may change in the future, but that''s how it is now.

Helpful links:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way | Google can help with your question | Search MSDN for help with standard C or Windows functions

Yes, Quality is indeed important.
As customer I don''t figure out if a game is written in C or Darkbasic etc. I want quality for my money.