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3D RTS - Do we need them???
Author
I was just bored at work and was reading a review of Force Commander (the new Star Wars 3D RTS game) and it started me thinking...does having a rotatable / zoomable camera enhance the gameplay of a RTS game? After playing the demos for Machines, Warzone 2100, Metal Fatigue, Earth 2150, Shogun: Total War, and the full version of Force Commander, I couldn''t help but think that these games would have been better if they were 2D/Isometric (None of those games have come close to being as good as Starcraft, Age of Empires, or Total Annihilation...which are all afew years old now!). The camera controls seem to get in the way, and the 3D units look terrible in most games. Sure the backgrounds look cool and there are some great explosion/lighting effects but 9 times out of 10 you end up positioning the camera to give you a traditional Isometric view anyway. And since you want to see as much of the battle field as possible to command your troops more effectively, zooming in to look at a particular unit is pointless. The only 3D RTS that I liked is Homeworld...which I think works so well since it is in space. Meaning there''s nothing to obstruct the camera, unlike Force Commander where hills/mountains can block the camera and all you see is a big brown blotch on the screen until you rotate/zoom to find your troops...which is not something you want to do during battle!!! So I was just wondering what you all thought about it, since more and more new RTS games are 3D (Warcraft III, Dark Regin 2, etc)
mhanna@nyc.rr.com
Some RTS don''t need to be 3d .Since 2D run faster the same ame in 2D could be a lot more faster.
I play TA Kingdom...so slow on my pc! and they do not need to be 3D!
I play TA Kingdom...so slow on my pc! and they do not need to be 3D!
If you liked Homeworld try Rift and Imperium Galactica 2 as well... they are both pretty good.
With the others, i think nobody has just invested any time in developing good camera movement algorithms ... i would like to see somthing like good context-sensitive camera movement
-kertropp
C:\Projects\rg_clue\ph_opt.c(185) : error C3142: 'PushAll' :bad idea
C:\Projects\rg_clue\ph_opt.c(207) : error C324: 'TryCnt': missing point
Edited by - kertropp on 4/5/00 12:16:53 PM
With the others, i think nobody has just invested any time in developing good camera movement algorithms ... i would like to see somthing like good context-sensitive camera movement
-kertropp
C:\Projects\rg_clue\ph_opt.c(185) : error C3142: 'PushAll' :bad idea
C:\Projects\rg_clue\ph_opt.c(207) : error C324: 'TryCnt': missing point
Edited by - kertropp on 4/5/00 12:16:53 PM
That''s wierd... I downloaded the demo of Tribes2 last night and was playing a little (seems like a great game... awesome gfx!) and I though... Wouldn''t it be cool to play an RTS in an environment like this? You could really add some strategy to the game if you could use terrain to your advantage more than just the high groung/low ground of Starcraft. And weather effects... 
One of the more annoying things about 2D RTSs I think is the use of Fog of War. Its obviously needed to be fair, but I think it takes a big dent out of the "realism" of the game. The beauty of a 3D world (if done correctly) would be that this FOW is no longer needed. I think all that would have to be done would be to constrain the camera to a certain maximum height above the ground... or only within a certain radius of friendly units...
You could even create a game where the player is an actual unit in the game (a commander or something) and he has to choose where he goes to give orders. This would also require that a communication aspect of the game be added so that he could give orders to units that aren''t right near him.
Another thing to consider... what happens when the commander dies? Does he respawn? Do you lose? This could even be different for different races (ie with one race you respawn, with another you just lose b/c your units turn on themselves w/o leadership or something) This would REALLY make different play styles for different races me necessary since for one it might be ok to go into the heat of battle directly, while with the other it might be best to hang back and give orders from afar.
I think this would turn out to be a really cool game!
Check out the GPI project today!
One of the more annoying things about 2D RTSs I think is the use of Fog of War. Its obviously needed to be fair, but I think it takes a big dent out of the "realism" of the game. The beauty of a 3D world (if done correctly) would be that this FOW is no longer needed. I think all that would have to be done would be to constrain the camera to a certain maximum height above the ground... or only within a certain radius of friendly units...
You could even create a game where the player is an actual unit in the game (a commander or something) and he has to choose where he goes to give orders. This would also require that a communication aspect of the game be added so that he could give orders to units that aren''t right near him.
Another thing to consider... what happens when the commander dies? Does he respawn? Do you lose? This could even be different for different races (ie with one race you respawn, with another you just lose b/c your units turn on themselves w/o leadership or something) This would REALLY make different play styles for different races me necessary since for one it might be ok to go into the heat of battle directly, while with the other it might be best to hang back and give orders from afar.
I think this would turn out to be a really cool game!
Check out the GPI project today!
I agree with you Gamera. Controling the games camera just gets in the way of the game. Also making the games 3D adds nothing to the game. Or if the do its something like controlling unit formations which could work just as well in 2d RTS games. Another thing that you mentioned that is worth remarking on is that the older RTS games are more enjoyable and offer better control than than some of the latest games. Nothing has really been added to what those games offered and in some cases later games have taken elements away. Tiberium Sun anyone?.
you already played populos: the begining it may be a bit old but have 3d graps that never get in the way, in fact it will terrible if that game was in 2d
-diskettes with life warranty. mine or of the diskette???
-diskettes with life warranty. mine or of the diskette???
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