I want to make a game(eventually) and I was wondering if it was a bad idea to just have all of the character''s skills magic. In my opinion melee combat is boring (I mean, look at Diablo). I think spellcasting is the most fun part of ANY game(makes you feel powerful, cuz ne1 can swing a sword). You''ve got to choose your talent points at the beginning(or save em for later), you can put them in any of the eight classes of magic to begin with. The eight classes of magic are: Weather, Summoning, Auras, Underworld, Elemental, Earth Control...and...uh...o i''ll think of some more... Talents improve your efficiency in a class of magic. You can only add additional talent points in a class of magic unless you have the super spell in that class of magic. There are 10 spells in each class of magic which can be upgraded to lvl 7. Once you have one kind of spell at level 7, you can get a super-spell. For example : in the Weather class of magic, there is the Hurricane spell. Once it is leveled up seven times, you can get a super spell. The super spell for Hurricane is "Tropical Storm" which is much more powerful than a level seven hurricane. And with talents in the Weather class magic, that spell will be even better. Once all super spells have been learned in a particlular class, you are eligible for an ultimate spell. One ultimate per class. So with eight classes or magic, you can have summoned creatures, auras to help them out. And a limitless supply of spells to crush your enemies. (the story of this game I''m keeping secret for now.) So....what do you think? Is there any game like this already? If it is, I havn''t played it before. To tell you the truth I don''t play much fantasy games. But if my dream came true of making this game with all the ideas, graphics, etc that I had in mind, I beleive the game would be capable of selling a million copies.

This sounds exactly like Secret of Mana 1 for SNES. The system rocks, but leads to repetitive casting just to level it up. Unfortunately, I don''t have the solution to the problem of skill-based/level-based systems. I''m not sure anyone does, right now.

And concerning ultimate spells, please don''t do it I find it leads to picking classes just for the ultimate, and then leads to repetitive use of just the one spell/skill. If someone wants a "ultimate spell" then they should take, from your example, tropical storm and shove all their talents in there. Anyway, just my opinion.

I've aslo got the idea(It's probably been thought of before) of spell crafting(the ability to make your own spells) Is there any way at all that I could do this?

I neglected to say that Ultimate spells burn off ALL your supply of magic in that particular class. Each class of magic has it's own magic/mana supply. Once an ultimate is used, you must switch to another class of magic until your mana is up again.

Don't confuse ultimate spells from super spells. Super spells come at the peak of one spells power. Once all super spells have been learned in that class of magic, then you have the option to go for the ultimate(which you would be stupid if you turned it down)

Also, the way I've got it set up(it's not crystal clear as to what I'm going to have it yet) an ultimate spell is very rare to get, and would take a long time to get. This way I would think it would keep people motivated to play the game and get the Ultimate spell. Having more than one ultimate would be extremely rare but it maybe could be done.

Ultimates stil a bad idea?

[edited by - Furion on August 10, 2002 2:55:06 PM]

I think what you should analyse rather than how to have a powerful animation-based-action in each category, trying thinking of how to create some form of strategy in the game. For instance, a restricted movement system is the easiest way to strategize. Position yourself far enough and the enemy can''t attack, stand at the right angle and have a significant advantage over the opponent. This might not be exactly what you want, but it''d be better to arrange skills devoted to just arranging advantage/disavantage situations, like zapping out opponent''s Wisdom/Intelligence/MagicPower/Karma/Whatever. The upshot of all of this is that rather than just melee''ing and using the same magic spell over and over, they end up circluating through skills to arrange the situations that they want.

-> Will Bubel
-> Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

quote: Original post by Furion
For example : in the Weather class of magic, there is the Hurricane spell. Once it is leveled up seven times, you can get a super spell. The super spell for Hurricane is "Tropical Storm" which is much more powerful than a level seven hurricane.

FYI: In the real world, a hurricane is a powerful tropical storm, not the other way round.



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quote: Original post by Furion
I think spellcasting is the most fun part of ANY game...

Some of us hate magic. But we still like RPGs (in theory).

quote:
...(makes you feel powerful, cuz ne1 can swing a sword).

I bet you can''t (swing a sword, that is). Even if you could, could you swing it with skill and turn it from an often-blunt hunk of metal into an instrument of death? Or would you need a razor sharp rapier or katana just to prick an enemy''s skin? Go watch Gladiator again and see what melee should be all about!

(Of course, your preference for magic is completely valid, as is my distaste for it. I just felt like taking you to task for your summary dismissal of swordplay.)

Keep in mind that video games are necessarily abstractions; no one actually wants to have to go to sword classes to be able to quest as a paladin, and neither do we wish to have to incant to cast spells in your game. Both melee and magic have a lot of potential in them; the trick is maximizing it.

quote:
But if my dream came true of making this game with all the ideas, graphics, etc that I had in mind, I beleive the game would be capable of selling a million copies.

Good luck!

Well thx for the "good luck" but don''t expect to see this game idea on the shelf for many years yet.

So are you saying that I should still implement some melee combat in the game? I plan to have a lot of summonable creatures with melee attacks(ogres, for example) Maybe during a battle players could have an option of switching to control a summonable(leaving the AI to take over the main character.) And some summonables even have a few skills at their use. How about that?

quote: Original post by Furion
Well thx for the "good luck" but don''t expect to see this game idea on the shelf for many years yet.

That''s okay. So long as you''re dedicated and produce something fun, even if it''s not flashy.

quote:
So are you saying that I should still implement some melee combat in the game?

Not at all. Feel free to include or eliminate whatever you feel is appropriate and whatever you find appropriate. If I were to develop an RPG, it''s extremely unlikely that there''d be any magic (though I might counter with SciFi''s answer to magic - psionics) and some people will like it, some will dislike it and others will be ambivalent. You can''t try to please everyone.

Do what you think is best for the game. It''s yours after all.

Not to go off topic here, but the reason a lot of people like Spellcasters is generally they are weak to start, but the strongest person in the universe at their peak. Fighters are generally strongest to start, and weaker later(compared to wizards). If you actually gave fighters skills that they can get, and protection to those massive damaging spells, perhaps people would take them. I am willing to bet people would be surprised that a warrior would take out a wizard at max level in an online game. Think of Ff3/6j... You get the spell ultima(or another powerful spell, but this is the best) and it does 6k-9,999... That is at level 40 or so, and warriors only do about 2k(I think). Something is a bit off there, sure by level 99 warriors can make a come back, but if you had to fight eachother, you would quickly find out magic would win(but that is the design flaw they had in it, you can''t damage yourself that much).

Now on to your idea, it will probably run into one of two problems. Problem one being there will be an all powerful class of magic(most likely invocation(damaging) or conjuration(summoning)) and people will flock over to them. The other problem being all classes are equal, and have the same spells, and its boring as well as possibly unbalanced(usually whoever makes the game gives a little advantage to their favorite element/thing... I know emmitt smith isn''t the fastest person in the universe on Tecmo bowl 3, but he can outrun a maxed stat person in excellent condition, for all of those who know what I mean).

I agree with you about most games involving melee combat - like diablo - point click, u hit some, u miss some. Not many games have done it sucessfully (none really). How long before VR Gloves are used for things like sword fighting? Someone else said that people don''t want to have to go to sword fighting classes to play a computer game but if there was a decent human-computer interface then melee combat could involve real skill rather than just point and click. At the moment Magic skills are more easy to make interesting and ''skillfull'' - u choose which spell is appropriate for the situation, you time it, you place it, you activate it etc. Melee combat like sword fighting is all about physical movement so its harder.