I''m not really sure if the forum is the place for this thread, but oh well. I''ve just had the strange experience (which probably happens to lots of people lots of times) of watching four games come out in relatively short succsssion that are very similar to the one we''re working on, and that are all marketed via Shareware. Things that make you go "eep"! In this case it''s the "expanded Sokoban" genre, which really started with the release of Chip''s Challenge by Epyx in 1990. For some reason nobody has touched a remake of that game in years (other than regular Sokoban games), and I had been toying with doing an updated version for some time. In fact, I had a half finished game in 1997, then scrapped the design and went on to other games, before returning to it in 2001. We''re probably a few months away from a final version (name of the game is still to be decided), but my heart did take a little drop, especially today, with the release of Stockboy (by Dexterity) and Miko & Molly (by Kronos Software). Prior to that we had Fitznik (also Dexterity) and Docker Sokoban (Alaware). Anybody else working on a Chip''s Challenge game? So here''s the question: any point in collaboration between the involved parties (perhaps people in the Solitaire or Mah Jong camp have experience with this?). Or is it best to just see where the dice fall? Hopefully there''s enough of a market to support several games of this type. If not, I hope mine sells much much more. Muwhaahahahaaaaaaa! Don''t know if there''s much point to this post. Just thinking out loud. Cheers! Patrick www.midnightsynergy.com

I know the feeling you have when you go "eep". For a long while I worried about the same thing, thinking someone was going to beat me to the punch and steal Miko & Molly's thunder (so to speak). What I came to realize a while ago was that it doesn't really matter. How many different types of quake and UT games exist out there? There are tons that sell well, even if they are very similar. How many football games out there that sell well? Quite a few. Every game has its own distinct feature...unless, of course, you put no real thought into adding something original to the game you are copying. For Miko & Molly, I have a number of features that make it unique, most importantly the 3D nature of it, the All Stars feature, and the 2 player mode. However, if worse came to worse and somebody copied Miko & Molly practically feature for feature, the games would still be different enough. I believe I have put enough of my own personality and enthusism into the game that nobody could quite replicate it without blatently copying it. If thats ends up being the case, then I always have the distinction of being the first.

It's funny how I got started with Miko & Molly. I was trying to think of something fun to make, and I thought back to a game I liked once. It was a game (now I know it was Sokoban) that my classmate-friend showed me in my first year at the university...on his TI-85 calculator. Until I started Miko & Molly, I had sadly never played any other version of Sokoban in my life. I guess in a small way I owe the game to him (guess maybe I should have mentioned him in the credits )

As for colaboration, I say let the dice fall. If worse comes to worse, I'm prepared to have Miko & Molly fail...I've got other ideas too. But I believe in the game with my heart and soul and I'm not about to watch it fail without the biggest blaze of glory you have ever seen. Maybe the whole 18 months of my life I put into the game have skewed my vision, but I believe that the market could probably support 10x the current number of puzzle games of the quality of Miko & Molly, Dweebs, and Fitznk (havent tried the others yet).

So I guess in summary, make sure you make something with a little bit of yourself in it, and make sure you really believe in it.

P.S. does someone know the proper way of using url tags in this forum? Every time I go to edit a message it corrupts my tags, which causes the update to fail unless I fix them.

Ron Frazier
Kronos Software
www.kronos-software.com
Miko & Molly - Taking Puzzle Games to A Whole New Dimension

[edited by - LordKronos on August 2, 2002 3:30:03 PM]

quote: Original post by LordKronos

So I guess in summary, make sure you make something with a little bit of yourself into, and make sure you really believe in it.

Absolutely. And none of these games are identical, but it they all share the basic concepts. Miko and Molly has a very different feel and look than e.g. Stockboy (and our game), but the game mechanics are very similar.

I guess you could say the same about every RTS and FPS out there though, so maybe you have a point. I just got a little mid-morning panic attack.

BTW, who did your music for Miko and Molly? I really like the title music, but it totally reminds me of the soundtrack for Taito''s Bust-a-Move. It wouldn''t be the same guy/gal, would it?

I did every single sound and graphic in the game myself with the exception of the skydome and the house in the cutscene, and the font. The makers of those are cited in the credits.

Ron Frazier
Kronos Software
www.kronos-software.com
Miko & Molly - Taking Puzzle Games to A Whole New Dimension

Cool. As I said, I really like the music!

I think it all boils down to how you''re going to market the game. For instance, before we agree to publish any particular game, we figure out what Unique Selling Proposition (USP) we''re going to use to market it. I.e. how will we position this game as something different and better than the competition? If we can''t come up with a compelling USP, we won''t agree to publish the game. Ultimately, the USP has to be something that''s strong enough to motivate players to want to buy the game.

The USP we''re using for Stockboy could be described as "massive abundance," so that''s what we push on its sales page. Stockboy has 150+ levels, more than quadruple the items/objects of either Dweep Gold or Fitznik, a level editor, a music composer, 3 bonus game modes, 10 different characters, and even more levels you can download from the web, so we use these features to back up the abundance claim.

Some USP''s are far more effective than others. Stockboy hasn''t even been out for 24 hours yet, but I can already tell it''s a winner -- it''s blown the roof off our previous 1-day sales record, and our marketing for this game is just getting started.

So in distiguishing yourself from the competition, it''s the USP that matters most. Is there one dimension where your game outdoes the competition, and is that something that players will perceive as a key benefit? Stockboy doesn''t try compete on its art, its sound/music, its engine, etc. But it''s a very strong contender in the dimension where it does aim to compete, a dimension that is of significant value to players.


Steve Pavlina
Dexterity Software
www.dexterity.com

quote: Original post by Dexterity
Stockboy hasn''t even been out for 24 hours yet, but I can already tell it''s a winner -- it''s blown the roof off our previous 1-day sales record, and our marketing for this game is just getting started.

I assume you get most of your initial sales of your mailing list? Have you made any "studies" to see how much people respond to the mailings? (I assume, since your list must be growing, that as a result 1st day sales will also continue to increase?)

Our newsletter definitely helps with the launch of each new game, and its effectiveness certainly improves over time. We''ve been running it for about 3.5 years now, and the rate of subscription is also increasing, as we done some things to our site to encourage more people to subscribe. But our most effective short-term promotional tool is our list of previous customers. It gets several times the response rate of the newsletter. Someone who''s already bought from us in the past is generally happy to hear about new releases. Rarely do past customers perceive such an email as spam. Once someone buys a game from us, we do our best to keep them as an ongoing customer for life. We could make a pretty good income just selling game after game to these same people over and over.

These two lists help create a good boost of sales during the first week or so, but our best long-term asset is our web site and its existing traffic. When we post a new game on our site, the first sale generally happens within a matter of minutes, even before we send out any announcements. We''re seeing more and more customers buying new games w/o even trying the demos first.


Steve Pavlina
Dexterity Software
www.dexterity.com